Interview: Nathalia Rus, Founding Engineer at Private Collectors Club

By Angela Tai

You studied politics at the University of Edinburgh which is drastically different from what you’re currently doing. You also served as a Summer Equity Research Analyst at Goldman Sachs. What sparked your interest in software engineering? Can you describe the moment you realized this was a field you’d like to pursue?

In my third year at university, a friend and I wanted to start a company and make an app - and I learnt that to make it a reality, I needed a team of developers. This is where I would say I started reading about the topic of software engineering. I came to understand that whatever it was that they were doing - software engineers were the folks building all these things that we use everyday. But it was still very cryptic.

Then, yes, I worked at Goldman Sachs for my summer internship in Global Equity Research and it was there where I had the initial spark. Studying politics gives you this kind of ambition, you’re studying the big trends and studying something that has an impact on peoples’ lives. As a politics student, you already have a broader understanding of the world. I was trying to translate that into success and tried to figure out what did/didn’t have traction. Certain companies have made advancements in banking, blockchain technology, etc. - these are concrete topics that will have an impact on society. From a non-engineering perspective, how do we code these things? It is a mystery. You can do many, many different things. So for me — when I talk to the engineers — they have so much power and impact in this world. I was studying the consequences of their work and thought it was so cool and inspiring. The impact that engineers were making was incredible; I figured I would start doing it on my own. 

It looks effortless and you know it’s going to be hard until you start doing it yourself. I rejected my graduate offers in banking and international relations and decided I wanted to go into engineering which was very difficult at first. But this kind of ambition was difficult for me to give up. I felt very motivated to do this for a living. That’s how politics and being in equity research gave me the frame of mind to recognize that engineering was at the center of it in many ways. 

You’re an incredibly accomplished individual. In fact, you were named the most influential female student at the University of Edinburgh as part of the JP Morgan Future 100 and 16th Woman to Watch in the UK in 2018. With so many women looking up to you, can you talk about perhaps some of the expectations that are put on you to succeed? 

Yes, there is pressure in the sense that when you’re doing something great, it’s expected to happen year after year. There is this pressure to also try to be healthy with your lifestyle. Pressure isn’t necessarily bad; however, compared to two years ago when I was at university, I’m happier now because I do things that I love. I love what I do, and I know that I can always figure out a way and I’ve realized that if it happens, great. If it doesn’t happen, then that’s okay. But two years ago I was not able to feel that way, because I was trying to be an engineer and I was fixated on doing great things when I was unable to, because I had so much to catch up on. Things have turned out well and now I finally don’t feel on edge anymore, but I’m very wary of giving advice to people because of where they may be at in life. Sometimes, they won’t be okay and I can’t tell them they will be if it’s not possible. I mean -who am I to say? if it hadn’t worked out, perhaps I would be depressed. I honestly don’t have the answer to that. If something were to happen now, and I would come to fail, how would I deal with these pressures? I’m still trying to understand this everyday, and I constantly try to work on it. 

Do you feel that women have the same opportunities as men in the tech world? In your opinion, what challenges do women face in the STEM professions/academia?

That’s a very good question. I think it’s a question that needs to be listened to — it depends on your environment, team, and company that you choose to work for. If you’re a woman in tech that’s having a hard time, please don’t try to stay and make things work - just leave. Now, in 2020, we’re lucky to have many more opportunities available. If we were in the 1950s, there was this expectation that we shouldn’t say anything. Don’t question tech and don’t question yourself: question the people that you are working with - I strongly believe that there are lots of opportunities for women in tech right now. Simply think of it as being in a bad relationship! Just because you’re with one bad guy doesn’t mean the rest of the guys are bad, same rule applies to tech companies. 

On your Instagram, I can tell that you’re a multi-dimensional person in the sense that you can draw and you’re also a talented pianist. We listened to your song “Onyx” on SoundCloud. It really shows that you have the balance of left brain right brain. What do you want your audience to take away from seeing your creative side, in addition to being a successful woman in STEM? 

Well, the message is really to enjoy your life. I think people get so caught up in their goals and what they want to achieve. But whether or not you’re successful, you’ll always have goals. There’s never an end. The problem in tech is that you have some peers who are widely successful, others who are not, and it might not be related to their skills as engineers. In banking, everyone is pretty much in the same place and they climb a similar ladder. In tech and in the startup world, it’s been much more toxic than that, you have inequalities and more failures than successes. Some people don’t receive the recognition that they wish they could have, or the recognition that they deserve, and I think this is something that exists in tech much more so than in other fields. But if people could appreciate the beauty in life and the aesthetics, it would bring along so much pleasure with the journey. Art is very therapeutic to me; everyday after I code, I play the piano, read poems, and write because it makes me express my feelings and emotions. It makes me understand that there are many kinds of beauty in life and on bad days it allows me to see that things are fine. Also, you have the other side as well which is physical exercise, you’ll have endorphins and have a different way of enjoying life. These experiences will be worth it. There’s nothing that I’m doing that you can’t do. Anyone can appreciate poems, get lost in something they find beautiful, anyone can learn the piano or the guitar on their own. It’s all very accessible.

We know that you have been open about your struggles with ADHD in the past. There’s so much stigma attached to people with ADHD. How have you had to adjust the way you work due to ADHD?

Well, Jeremy Hindle is my mentor and he’s so successful. His company is called Headstart AI, which is a company that specializes in recruiting software. Accenture is using them for their graduate programs, they are trying to put bias on the back burner. He’s very emotionally intelligent so when we worked together, he asked me, “you know don’t you think we could work on these things?” I didn’t tell him I had ADHD but it meant a lot to me that he noticed and made an effort and invested in my growth. He genuinely cared about me as a person. Try to surround yourself with people who will make you thrive - I don’t think I would’ve been able to get through my struggles with ADHD on my own. I’m a huge believer in teamwork, you always have to look at other people around you and figure out how to lift one another up. It’s important to be organized and have your to-do lists in order to make it work with all of the people. 

You also mentioned that without your ADHD you wouldn’t have had the energy and spontaneity to switch between so many fields. From the perspective of changing careers, personally, I’m a big fan of people staying true to their core and if something doesn’t feel right then they owe it to themselves to investigate what will make them feel fulfilled at work. I’m curious to hear your philosophy on this. Clearly you’re a woman of many talents and you’ve made decisions that are authentic to yourself.  Did people try to deter you from switching careers when you were making the transition into STEM?

Yes, definitely. Well, the ADHD bit is a double edged sword if that makes sense. It was good timing with personal luck. When I was a student, I had no responsibilities; I was a student who had her whole life ahead of her. I could make those decisions very quickly. There’s no other people that I was taking care of and wouldn’t suffer the consequences of my actions. It’s better not to switch careers in your 40s if you have children and don’t have as much of a safety net. There is still a way - but it is harder. I was very privileged at age twenty when I was a university student. If you don’t have any people depending on you financially and if you’re free to do whatever you want financially, then there’s no reason for you to listen to people when they tell you what to do. You don’t need to think about the worst possible thing that could happen. With anxiety, sometimes, you imagine the worst thing that could happen. Then, you think about restarting applications or making minor changes in your life. And if restarting applications is the worst thing that could happen to me, that’s really not that bad. So many people are like, “Nat, you’ve changed careers 3x already.” Before that, I wanted to study Theology and I think the administration hated me because I changed my mind so many times. So what? I’ll cram and do what I need to do with the exams but I’ll also be logical with the outcomes. Some people get lost in a nightmare scenario which can be very toxic. 

In one of your interviews, you mentioned that you had an app idea with a friend. It was a very difficult app to make and overall kind of a nightmare, and you were surprised when you were the runner-up at the Edinburgh Startup Festival. Do you have a lot of experiences where looking back you’re sort of putting yourself in an uncomfortable position and learning as you go?

That’s the philosophy of life — it comes from my father — he’s an unconventional man and he takes many risks. I had this idea that he was Indiana Jones and he would just go wherever and as he pleases. I always saw my life as a kind of movie where you can’t get too comfortable and if it’s difficult, it makes life more fun. You really have to leave your comfort zone and you have to be comfortable with that. I always try to challenge myself, I tried boxing, and went into a proper boxing fight. I signed up to train like a professional athlete for 6 months with my friend. I took a few punches and almost broke my nose, I had no idea how it worked. For the Edinburgh Women in Tech Conference, I had to find sponsors and funding at the very last minute after I spontaneously decided to run it, and I had no idea what I had signed up for - there was so much to do, way more than I had imagined, all while I was literally getting punched in the face everyday in the boxing ring. When you say yes to things, sometimes you regret it and sometimes you give up. But even if 10% of the things work out, you’re fine and it was all worth it. When you code, you will never get it right the first time. You’ll be wrong most of the time. It doesn’t mean you have lost your time. Each time takes you closer to the right or the better way of doing things. If it was easy to code, everyone out there would have their own app. I think that it’s actually interesting because engineering allows me to have even more opportunities to leave my comfort zone. If you’re not in tech yet and have this kind of mindset, I do think it will make you a very good engineer. 

You’re the Founding Engineer at the Private Founders Club for a bit more than a year now. What do you hope to accomplish in the next year or two?

Yes, I’m the founding engineer of the Private Collectors Club which will actually launch a product very soon (we are soon to be rebranded as “Custodian”).. The interesting thing here is we’re in a field where technology isn’t very advanced yet. PCC is introducing technology to this field. Some of my friends want me to establish a start-up for diversity or around women, but women should do whatever they want to be doing. The field I am now in currently is pretty much male-dominated - our platform is beacheading in cars.  Except at Goodwood, I never saw many women at the events we go to, I’m sometimes the only one there. They look at me with curiosity and might think I’m the partner of someone at the event, while we’re basically doing the big breakthrough in this industry and I’m the engineer, so it’s very exciting! We’re doing some very edgy stuff in the field around data with dgraph (graph database) and there’s so much to be done as well. We feel like we’re contributing so much to the industry. I’d also like to bring in more women and introduce the world of racing to them. There’s so much to be done which is just amazing, everything is just being built. 

During the panel discussion at Plexel (“Women in Tech: What We Don’t Say”), you talked about how the most popular accounts are models posing with empty captions, where just looks or material possessions are shown or are seen to have value. While you note that there is nothing wrong with any of those accounts, you assert that there is a lack of diversity in the types of ideals that are eventually displayed for women. For many women and girls who are keeping up with TikTok creators and lifestyle influencers on Instagram, what’s your secret to keeping them engaged with your content? 

To be completely honest, if I had a very sexy picture of me posted every few days with a vague caption, I would be much more popular. When I was at university, there was more cleavage and I was just leading a very different lifestyle. There’s nothing wrong if you want to be that kind of person on Instagram. The problem is when you don’t do what you want to do because of other people. The real danger is how people who would otherwise create content that’s true to their core would then revert to what they see as very shallow content if they believe that’s the norm. I think it’s hard on Instagram to be successful if you’re posting authentic content. But twelve year olds girls are going to be on Instagram, not on Twitter. I want to show them that they can be very cool doing what they are passionate about and can also be successful. Those girls could have easily been me. When I was twelve, I dropped Math as a subject completely; I chose arts because all of the girls around me were choosing this. If I had known everything that I do now, I would have chosen Math as a subject. I want to show young women that they’ll receive attention from the right people, the people who believe in their growth and who value their contributions. Two years ago, I would’ve probably gone on TikTok but talking about coding and stuff on TikTok would be hard as I’m very busy with my work now. I want twelve year olds to see girls accomplishing things and showing off what they’ve learned, and being valued for it, rather than being valued because they happen to look pretty on a picture or video.

You’ve done a great job of adjusting to the new norm or working from home (via your set-up that we see on Instagram). What are your tips for creating a productive home office in the remote work era? 

I’ve been very lucky, my team is positive and we pivoted successfully. My co-founders and I were like, “how are we going to get through this?” We had to give up our office which building closed shortly after the pandemic started. One of my co-founders and myself decided to move together and we’ve had our huge monitors set up. Again, that’s a privilege thing and we wanted to have the best material possible. But ask yourself: are the people who are surrounding you the best people for you? Your company should send you the monitors to your home or they should give you the money to buy monitors. As a developer, I can’t imagine having to work on my macBook. If you have an issue with your workspace during coronavirus, you should be able to discuss this with your boss. They need to understand that they need you to be happy, whether that’s a standing desk or a comfy office chair. This is so unprecedented, we’ve never had so many people working from home before. Please ask and you are entitled to ask, working remotely has way less costs for your employer. Your employer isn’t paying more for your office space, how can they make sure that you’re working effectively from home? 

Do you feel hopeful about the future? 

I think it’s difficult to be hopeful and happy everyday. I make sure to be transparent when I am feeling down or tired, as with social media, especially instagram, people have the expectation that they should be as happy as everyone else seems to be all the time. But it’s not real: some days, you will feel like you have the blues and other days you will feel very hopeful. 

For women in tech, the opportunities are coming more and more often. These young girls have so many questions and want to do something with their lives. I don’t think we’re going to be backwards on that. Regarding the world with COVID - it’s not ideal but I’ve been so happy to see people wearing masks. We’re still caring about people who are older or who might be immunocompromised. I feel that the loss of jobs will be balanced by the influx of new jobs. In my politics studies, I did my thesis on the Universal Basic Income and I saw where we were heading with technology. Now everything is digitized with coronavirus and I see more qualified jobs and more freedom with remote office work moving forward. 

Yes, I actually see more freedom! I think all those fears around a forced adoption of digital solutions are more reflecting potential risks than actual scenarios happening right now, and, you know, our government isn’t actually spying on us for some shady reason. The result will be more remote work - and the great thing with tech is that it doesn’t require a degree. People losing their jobs could literally learn how to code for 3 months without having to spend a dime on education. I do see hope in the future regarding the present trends, compared to 20 or 50 years ago, are we better? Yes!