Interview: Katelyn Williams, Industrial & Systems Engineering PhD Student and NCA&T Chancellor's Distinguished Fellow

By Angela Tai

You earned a bachelor’s degree in Biomedical Sciences, a master’s in Bioengineering and you’re currently a Ph.D student in Industrial and Systems Engineering. How did you become interested in engineering? I know you mentioned in your blog that you’re the first engineer in the family. What influenced your decision in pursuing this career path as you were also considering other fields like medicine?

To be completely honest, I really thought that I wanted to be a doctor. It wasn’t until I started working at the doctor’s office when I realized that I didn’t like the patient-to-provider portion of it. I was sitting there one day and was looking at the instruments that were being used in the office. When I was working there, I shadowed the doctors because I was serious about going to med school. I was sticking a scope into the patient’s nose to look at their sinuses and I really was so fascinated by that particular instrument, not what their sinuses looked like. I’m a people person, but always having to see patients, treat them, and do that back-to-back until the day was over was cool to shadow, but it’s something I couldn’t do day-to-day. It was then that I realized that I was more interested in the behind-the-scenes work. When I figured that out, I really looked into what my strengths were as a student and how they could come together for my professional experience. When I worked with patients in a clinical research setting, I was in my element. When I was working with patients, however, they knew I was there to collect data and their surgeon was coming in shortly after I left. I would make sure the patients were comfortable and talk to them of course, but there’s a low chance we’d see each other after that, unless the study warranted some follow-ups. I was also using tools and instruments that weren’t found in doctors’ offices. That’s ultimately how I decided that engineering would be the best fit. 

Diversity in the tech industry is still sparse but thanks to social media, I think powerful individuals like your are being recognized. What can we do to improve the turnout rate of women and people of color in tech?

One thing that helped me growing up was being involved in the Science Olympiad. It was a huge part of why I loved science, but I was the only Black person there. I just remember having an amazing experience. I was one of two girls on the team and our advisor was so supportive of us being there. He told us “I can see you two becoming scientists.” We won third place in the state competition and he told my mom to do whatever she could to keep me along this path. 

Corporations need to do more to get out to recruiting events, especially at HBCUs where my degrees are looked at as less than because the schools are smaller. Coming to these smaller schools, you’ll see that talent there, we have similar curriculums and we do the same things as these other schools. It’s important for teachers to hint at it and say, “hey, I think you’re a good fit for x club.” 

What do you have to say to these young people who feel like they’re behind if they don’t go to a “name brand” school? 

In reality, college is expensive and for a lot of us who are currently on the fully funded degree programs, we have those undergraduate loans. You have to think to yourself - what’s important to me? If going to that name-brand school makes you feel better, then that’s fine but just know that most schools in that same region go through the same accreditation processes. Going to an in-state small school is a smart choice - you’re not getting any less of an education and it's a cheaper option. Even with HBCUs, some are private and a little more expensive than others, but it’s all about what’s best for you. You can easily access information about each campus and all of that information is free. You can compare curriculums between schools for what you’re looking for, see what one school has versus another and make the best decision for you. Also, you need to understand that there are scholarships out there for students, especially for first generation students, minorities and women who need to occupy spaces, particularly in STEM. Although I did take out loans at the undergraduate and master’s level, I had other ways of supplementing my undergraduate education so I had scholarships from my community. On the Master’s level, they counted me as an in-state student (even though I was out-of-state) because I was working for the school which helped me immensely. Again, there are so many ways for you to go about funding your own education so if it is the big-name school that you’ve always dreamed of going to but money is an issue, there are scholarship options. Always remember - sometimes smaller schools are better for students who haven’t had that big school experience.

We’re huge fans of your YouTube videos - you discuss everything from the science behind gel nail polish to college during COVID times and your digital planner. What do you hope to impart by putting out this content?

I want to show people the face of a real graduate student - we’re not just those lab rats that you see on TV when we're portrayed in various TV shows. We’re not just reclusive people who are at home or in the lab all the time - we have real lives. People are multifaceted in grad school: you have students who are fresh out of undergrad and then you have those who are married with children. You never know who’s going to be in your classes on the graduate level. It’s a question that I’ve gotten a lot, “what do I do now that I’m not on campus?” My school reached out to me so that I could record for them, showing students the reality of the situation can prove that it’s not as bad as we thought. We’re not just always buried in books or in the lab. I don’t have to leave my house to go to the lab anymore, I complete my tasks at home and I still have a life. Trust me, I’m not always doing work. I can tell that a lot of misconceptions have been debunked because they saw those things. Even in my Instagram stories, I share my day-to-day life every now and then. My dog likes to make an appearance, too!

On your website, you include several resources for women in STEM as well as information about fellowships and scholarships. What inspired you to put out such resources? Did you have a role model in your path to a STEM focused career?

Honestly not really, because of the fact that I didn’t see anybody who looked like me in STEM for a long time. I had the opportunity to meet Dr. Mae Jemison after winning a competition at Dupont. Seeing her was what really made the light switch turn on for me. I knew I didn’t want to be an astronaut, but to see someone who looked like me be a scientist - I was like okay cool, this is doable. But the issue was, I didn’t have anyone to talk to or ask things like, “how difficult was it to get your PhD and what was that process like?” I knew how difficult it was for me to even muster up the courage to go to grad school because I didn’t know what resources were out there. If I didn’t know and other students didn’t know, this lack of knowledge wasn’t uncommon. I didn’t want other students to do what I did which was basically scramble to find that funding. Lots of PhD programs offer fully funded programs and you get a stipend on the back end, but you don’t want to put all your eggs in one basket. You want to apply to outside fellowships to potentially get that extra funding because you don’t know which fellowships will have stricter requirements, what GPA you have to maintain, etc. Again, you just don’t want to rely on one source. You need to know what you’re getting into and I wanted to make that perfectly clear and readily available for people to view on my website as well as scholarships. There are ways to get the money, you just have to be willing and know where to look. 

You’re also a Collegiate Coach for minorities in STEM. Can you describe some of the common themes that minorities face when they first enter the STEM fields?

One challenge that I see is just the application process; it’s nothing like what you’ve seen before. Schools can ask for supplemental information and students don’t know what to provide, which is totally normal. One big chunk of the application that’s not familiar is the fact that you need to know what kind of research you want to do. You need to identify faculty members at this institution that are in that specific field who might be willing to work with you. Students don’t know their research area of interest and they don’t know the faculty members and the grad programs they’re interested in, so there’s also a huge gap in that. Many students are actually intimidated by the research section because they think it’s the end-all, be-all. The process of applying to graduate school is more work than most people think it is. Applying to fellowships and scholarships is new to so many students because they’ve accrued those student loans in undergrad. The key to all of this is to stay organized. Coming up with different ways to be more organized based on what works for the student is something we discuss. It’s not as hard as people think it is, but it’s hard when you’ve never done it. I always put myself in the shoes of students because I remember when all of these things were difficult to me. I didn’t have anyone close by to discuss this with and it was a stressful time. I didn’t have someone to hold my hand through the application process or say, “hey, this is how you need to reach out to people who could potentially be your research advisor at this new institution.” I see that it’s still a constant issue students face, so if they need someone like that, I am here to help.

You’ve done an incredible job with your brand “The Curly Scientist.” What have been some of the challenges of personal branding and how have you overcome them?

Putting a website together. It wasn’t because I didn’t want to, it was because I didn’t know how people would perceive it. I was very apprehensive to put myself out there because as soon as you put yourself out there, you get both the positives and the negatives. Thankfully, I haven’t gotten any negative feedback from the content that I’ve put out so far. I put my personal info like my degrees to let people know where I’ve been and to let them know, “I know you can do this, too.” I helped myself overcome this by being intentional. Nothing that I post is done on the fly: I take my time to curate content.

You talked about the prevalence of health disparities around the world. In your opinion, how can education, research and technology help address some of these compounding health disparities around the world?

Literally just accessibility - that’s the #1 problem of it all. Let’s use virtual access as an example. If we’ve seen anything with COVID, it has just been the digital divide. The divide between those that have and those that don’t is so vast. Students relied heavily on the resources their schools provided them and now, they don’t have any resources in a remote setting. They’re on their parents’ phones and trying to learn through Zoom. Having the ability to search on Google is a privilege many take for granted. We can ask Google anything at any time. As soon as you feel subtle COVID symptoms, you are able to hop on WebMD to see the difference between the cold, flu and COVID. You could even schedule a telehealth appointment to have a physician assess your symptoms. On the other hand, someone without those resources won’t have that same experience. Everyone deserves to have access to a computer and a reliable internet connection.

Your latest blog post was very motivational and highlighted the importance of self-advocacy. What can educators do to cultivate an environment that’s nurturing for students?

As someone who has kind of been in that position, I did teach math for a year. Professors need to understand that their students are humans, they’re not just people you can assign something to and expect them to only crank out work. That’s not a great perspective to have, and I noticed that during COVID, a lot of professors made that shift. You never know what a student is going through at all. I’ve been really lucky as a student because I haven’t had any professors who were’t understanding and who weren’t willing to hear their students out. For me in undergrad, when my mom had her first open heart surgery, I missed most of my sophomore year but my professors on the back end said “okay, how can we help you?” I came back to campus every Friday and if I had a test, I would take my test. They would then give me a packet of work and tell me to complete it whenever I can, little things like that. Although it does take more time out of their day just to do something like that, they never know the lasting impact they have on a student when they do that. Just understanding the humanistic aspect of their students is important - yes, I signed up to be here and I know what grad school entails, but I can’t predict what life will throw at me either. You have to understand that we’re all humans too and being an educator means that you’re dealing with different humans. 

Did you already have an established relationship with your professor when that happened or did you lay the foundation by communicating and advocating for yourself and was it for the professor to be lenient towards you? 

Because it happened so fast, I just went to their office and I knew I needed to talk to the professor face-to-face because sending an email with all of the information wasn’t going to suffice at all. I didn’t even ask for them to make any special arrangements, it’s something that they willingly did. If I wasn’t able to get to campus, my best friend went into my professors’ offices, scanned everything herself, and emailed everything to me. I just went during office hours and talked to my professors, I let them know what was happening and everyone was understanding. Something similar happened last year and now I’m further away from my family, so my professors have been very understanding with all of that as well. 

You’re very active across social channels. How do you balance keeping up with your research, studies and putting out content? What’s your time management secret? 

It's been difficult! I can say that I’ve just carved out my entire schedule in advance and a lot of people call me crazy for doing it but it’s something that I’ve always done. Even before COVID, it just made it a lot easier for me to be less anxious. I typically would say, I’m going to be on-campus from 8-5 and because I have a dog, I have to home at a specific time to walk her, feed her, etc. Now, being at home 100% of the time, of course it’s different but it’s different in a good way. I still wake up early to work out, get my things together and have class at 8am but then after 8am, I can make some content real quick and then I’ll do research for the rest of the day. It’s been easier since I’ve been at home because everything is all in one place now and it’s made me spend more time on things that I like to do. Now, I’m like it’s like okay it’s only 8pm, I can stay up a little later and watch some tv and just destress. I'm not anxiously waiting for all of these emails; I’ve definitely set a lot more boundaries since I’ve been at home and that’s helped a lot.

Your most recent Instagram post pays homage to your family members in honor of Black History Month. How are you celebrating this special month and how do you want your non-black friends and peers to celebrate this special month? 

Just to educate yourself! I grew up learning a totally different curriculum than what a lot of other students learned. Think about the milestone conversations that Black parents have to have with their kids. When I got my first car, I remember that so vividly and it was so much fun learning how to drive. But then I got my license and my mom sat me down and said “listen this is how this is going to go, we can’t have this happening to you.” Then, you turn 21 and it’s a never-ending series of important conversations so just continue to learn about what we have to face. The contributions that Black people have made to society are so great yet I’m still looked at as less than. People wouldn’t be where they are today, we wouldn’t have the luxuries of an elevator or traffic lights if it weren’t for what Black people did. It’s not like they were necessarily looking at it from a greater good perspective all the time either, they wanted to make their lives easier and it just happened to make everyone else’s lives easier too. For me, as a Black woman, these conversations are never-ending. We can’t just continue to do these big strides that we do in history and only celebrate it in the span of one month. As someone whose family was born into slavery, I learn about my history all the time. We weren’t just slaves, we came from royalty - we didn’t come here on our own merit, we were stolen from Africa. Just be okay and open to learning and not just the fun parts either; but the difficult parts too.

Could you speak about your experience as both a mentor and what are some of the attributes that make a good mentor?

A lot of my mentors are in a career path I’m interested in pursuing. If you want to be in their shoes one day, they have the potential to be your mentor. However, they also have to be easy to talk to since it’s a mentor/mentee type of relationship and you’re trying to get as much knowledge as possible. You should never feel intimidated by your mentor. Ask them a little more about how they got to where they are, what are their likes/dislikes about their position and little things like that, especially for a woman of color in the STEM field. Although I do have mentors that look like me, I don’t have access to them all the time. Having people that look like me on campus is great, especially Black male professors who will email me and say, “talk to this person, I think she would be a great mentor for you.” Having a mentor that knows what you want and where you can see yourself in the future is helpful. Another one that people always forget is, you have to interview them too. It’s okay for them to agree to being your mentor but if they can’t commit to certain things you’re asking them for, don’t X them out - know what they’re good for and have someone else fill those gaps that they may not be able to fill for you at the moment. It’s okay to have multiple mentors for that reason: I have multiple mentors and it has been so helpful to have different perspectives and meeting people from all walks of life. Some people in my PhD program are established adults (husband, wife, kids, etc.) so knowing that perspective has been helpful too. Mentors don’t necessarily have to be in your field either. All of my mentors aren’t PhD’s or in academia, however, they all are somewhere in life where I’d like to be. Don’t think about it like you have to ask someone to be your mentor in your department or field, think about it as, “I can reach out to anyone who’s in a position I can see myself in.” 

What empowers you about being a Black woman in STEM and what would you tell young people who fear going into a field where they don’t necessarily see a lot of people who look like them?

My contribution to the greater good is what keeps me motivated. I’ve had the opportunity to research things that are issues in my community. What I experienced growing up inspires me as a researcher to solve those problems using STEM. I’ve always told students, because we’re in the minority, what affects our community isn’t necessarily researched. This is one reason why we still see huge health gaps in cancer, sickle cell anemia and diabetes research. There aren’t enough people who have said, this is 100% what we’re going to research for the next 10 years and nothing else. We’re determined to get to the bottom of this - we want to know why Black people are more affected by certain diseases and what we can do to get these numbers down for that population. Knowing that the work that I do has a direct impact on my community keeps me moving forward. 

You posted about the presidential election back in November. Understandably, you were so proud of your hometown (Wilmington, Delaware) for showing up and voting for Biden. It was absolutely amazing to see those images of your mom, aunt, cousins and your grandma once the Biden/Harris victory was announced. What was the significance of this historic election for you? 

For me, it was twofold because America sees Biden as President Biden now. But for me, we could run into him at any time. When he’s talking to America about very important things and just showing up for the job, that’s who he has always been. America and the world gets to see the man that Delaware has known. He has always taken the train back and forth between DC and Delaware to get home every night to see his family. I’ve seen him get off that train, even when he was Vice President. I’m still a Girl Scout leader and when we set up shop at the train station, he bought cookies from my girls. When his son passed, I actually lived four blocks away from that church. I didn’t go to the viewing but my Aunt did and she was in that line for hours and hours. He greeted everyone who showed up and didn’t leave until he greeted the last person. I mean wow. Of course, Kamala Harris - she’s a Black, Asian woman. This is amazing to me, I can’t even put it into words. Just know that representation matters. If you can see someone that looks like you in these positions, you know you can do it too. To see little girls looking at the TV and saying, “oh my gosh she looks like me.” Representation truly does matter. You don’t know how much it matters until you’re in that position or until you see someone who looks like you in that position. A new door has opened, that’s why this election was especially important for me.

What do you hope to accomplish in the next year? 

I’m going to be honest here - I’ve never been great at goal-setting. The reason has always been because I’m just doing the work or the task at hand. However, I do know the importance of goal setting and I’m slowly getting the hang of it. One goal is to not hesitate in putting things out there. As far as content goes, I want to keep putting things out that are meaningful to me as opposed to what I think my audience would like to see. The second goal is for me to be open to change. With the COVID environment, I can’t work with human subjects. Although I did alter my research topic to be virtual-friendly, I still have to be open to whatever curveballs are thrown at me. The third goal is for me is to stay consistent with things that bring me joy - especially with The Curly Scientist. When I first started grad school, it was so hard for me to post anything, I was very inconsistent. I would post and nobody would see me for five months or I’d make a huge video and realize it’s been two years since I’ve posted anything. Taking the time to create content is a huge stress reliever for me.